Posted in Germany forum
I just read a story on Spiegel online which shocked me: According to a new study, more than 14% of German teenagers can be considered as "anti-foreigners", while more than 5% fall into the category of the righ extreme with Nazi-tendencies.
Surprisingly, the bad reputation of foreigners seems to be higher in those regions with little foreigners (so those regions where people don't even know what they talk about!!!).
The original article is here: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,613844,00.h
tml
To me - this is just another example of human ignorance, but for a foreigners living in Germany, these numbers are pretty scary!
What are your opinions and personal experiences with the way Germans see foreigners?
Least racist country
posted by Carsten Pfau in Germany forum
Hi Blizzy,
I am German - I have traveled to some 40 countries and I have lived abroad for more than 15 years. I am very confident to say that Germany is among the LEAST racist countries in the world. First of all - even a serious magazine such as Spiegel needs to sell - and bad news sell way better than good news, you know that. Statistics - well, as you probably know, you can prove almost anything through statistics, you just need to know how to ask the questions. So I wouldn´t think too much of those numbers. But even if you do believe them as they were printed (which you shouldn´t), then just compare Germany to other European countries. Try England, Spain or France - you´ll return happily to Germany. Or even the US. Sure, you´ll think of the US - and New York, LA or San Francisco come to mind. But what about southern US states, or the Bible Belt??? No racism or discrimination there??? And believe it or not, I have never experienced more racist comments and serious discrimination of black people than in Latin-America. Sounds weird, but it´s true. However, of course pointing to others doesn´t count as an excuse (though it underlines my point). I bet that no foreigner in Germany would seriously experience racism in cities such as Munich, Frankfurt or Hamburg. Maybe if you run into a group of drunk hooligans, but that can happen anywhere. And talking about sports - just look how many athletes from all over the world are cheered for in Germany. There are soccer teams that play with 60 or 70% foreigners. You may experience racist tendencies in East Germany, that is true. Why? Well, the region still has many, many problems, extreme unemployment and -considering German standards- serious poverty. People tend to look for a scape goat and for somebody to blame for their own problems. Not an excuse - but maybe an explanation. Whenever anti-foreign tendencies appear in Germany, they are highlighted in the press and the media - mainly because its Germany. The very same incidents in England, France or even the US - and no newspaper tries to sell copies with those stories. In other parts of the world (e.g., Latin-America, the Middle East) racism is widely accepted and not even seen as something bad. In conclusion - I really need to defend my country and my fellow Germans here!!! We are NOT a racist country, we do NOT oppose foreigners living among us and we do NOT close our borders to others. Not too many countries accept people from all over the world as Germany does, not too many countries help people from all over the world (here and abroad), not too many countries grant asylum to so many people as Germany does! So my plee would be, to just forget those few poornarrow-minded s.o.b.´s who really don´t know better - and focus on the large mayority of Germans who is open-minded and welcomes people regardless of their country of origin, their religion or their skin color. And returning to the Spiegel statistics: 95% of all Germans are NOT racist. I think that´s good news...
Racism
posted by Inna Minch in Germany forum
My experience of racism is : when I speak Russian to my 5-year old son in publick places old ladies roll their eyes and say something like: " Oh, Liebe Deutschland!". I had this situations a couple of times in supermarkets. If I ever experience anything like that, always from older generation.
SOS from Germany !
posted by M. M. in Germany forum
I am German !
I have grown up and lived here for most of my life !
Once I loved this country but now all I want is to leave it !
And I already know by now that iin case I left Germany that I would only miss the landscapes where I grew up...., but these are just memories. Of course I won't leave my memories here, and they will make me come back here for a visit some time.
Oh what a beautiful country, I cannot understand how people can be so bad and unhappy in such a wonderful place. Something is wrong with them. Most people in this society are mentally sick, I cannot find any other explanation. So much hate, racism and jealousy, it has become worse in the last decades. But the cause of their unhappiness and jealousy must be sought in their history. But I am neither an historian nor do I have the motivation to make a thesis about the cause of their unfriendly behaviour towards foreigners, themselves...and their dogs.
I hope I will get a job abroad as soon as possible and.....anywhere !
I won't say much here, no analysis.
Discrimination, racism, humiliation, intolerance, jealousy, depressive people, lack of culture and identity, lack of real and cultural education, excessive authority and control.......every term can be associated with these people here.
You may say, that this can also be associated with other countries. I only lived in Southern European countries, so I can only comment on those countries: xenophobia is more "human" there: In those countries I cannot observe systematical arson or other kind of criminal violence towards unwanted people, humiliation of minority groups in everyday life or the organised criminalization and psychiatrisation of natives with the "wrong" political views, foreigners or other unwanted minority groups, modern child trafficing / child robbery (e.g. "Adoption" by the German Jugendamt, which takes away mainly foreign children from their parents in the name of "child protection" and the germanisation of foreign children by "selling" them to their new German parents or keeping them in "Jugendheime" and by isolating them from their real parents, by not allowing them to have contact to their real parents if they use their mother tongue....etc....). And the worst about it ! You dont hear about this much in the press. Only if you investigate cleverly, if you "google" for it in the internet you will become aware of what is going on.
It seems that the Germans hope that they could get rid of all unwanted people by systematical criminalisation, psychiatrisation, humiliation and the almost of these minority groups or by threatening them by burning them in their private houses (arson) or burning their businesses over night.
Is this the modern holocaust ?
I am convinced that my comment here is no exaggeration !
After the "classic" holocaust they have had more than 70 years to prove that Hitler & Co. where the bad people. But now it is obvious that it was the main part of German society who was responsible and commited this terrible crime.Now I realize, I always say "they" when I speak about Germans, altough I am German myself.....may be because I dont consider myself German any more.
Our leaders and the EU ignore the present situation in Germany because of economic interests (Germany is presently one of the main exporters of arms, pharmaceutical products etc....) ! Producing and exporting wars is the prerequisite for the economic wealth of the big rich countries, such as Germany (who not only has been responsible for the beginning of the former World Wars but also among other countries is responsible for the production of the present big wars).
But every one of us could do s.th. !
So my advice is:
Keep away from this country if you love life, laughing and freedom !
Isolate this country economically and politically !
Boycott German products ! Dont visit Germany !
Only then they will understand or at least change and be more diplomatic to foreigners and foreign countries ! They depend on exports more than any other country in the world. They are richer than any other people in the world...and always complaining and unhappy. Why ? May be so much wealth and property makes us human beings bad people ! So if our economy deteriorates ... I am convinced that we will become more human one day !
I hope we will, because if not, I will forever lose a main part of my identity ! I still have some German friends here, but not so much as in the past. And because of my experience in this country I am afraid that nothing will change as long as I live.
If I find another job abroad and leave this country at least I hope that I wont feel so much hate for this country...and have peace of mind.I have read my comment here again and again, and I ask myself:
Have I become a racist myself ? Or is it just a reaction to the situation here ? Am I exaggerating ? .....I really dont know !
All I know is that I had to write all this. But I dont feel really any better now !If you shocked about racism in Germany , then you'll love Ireland and England
posted by Anthony Spence in Germany forum
I've lived in South Africa , Zimbabwe, England, and Rep Ireland
Out of all the Countries with the least racism was the country with the most press !
Zimbabwe had the least racism , i had many African friends who I worked with and grew up with , South Africa was second , Admittedly the Afrikaners were something else - they just don't like anyone on their turf - period.
But when i went to the uk 11 yrs ago i was shocked at how much racism there was
it didn't matter whether you were black or white , if you were not born in the country, even if you were a British Colonial like me, you may as well have been branded before they even knew you !Ireland puts England in the shade, the fact that I'm 3/4 English and 1/4 Irish and grew up in Africa, makes me target number' one !
I've been called all sorts of stuff, sometimes I don't understand it (Gaelic) thank god ; but the general consensus ,is simple ; I'm a subhuman inbred - and they believe they perfect
These are the most arrogant people i have ever met
They put a completely new meaning on the word of racism.Incidently German people are the most friendly and least racist people I have ever met next to the Dutch !
Rascism in Germany!!!!
posted by patrick eso in Germany forum
@Paloma La Paz, Crisis, Morena my ability in spanish language is not so perfect to write in spanish but I would justify what Paloma said by saying part of the racism has to do with the passing of idealogy from the old generation to the new generation regardless of the job position, being it a journalist the have thesame thinking only the hide it while outside their locality. Why I use home grown journalist as example because the way the divide people of African descent when the report news shows nothing has been learnt of the event of the past 70years .I think the only country the pretend to respect is only the U.S.A and the no perfectly why.If can`nt bit them !!! You join them.Racism is their to flourish in other to show false perfect humans.Some people speak of others with their Human Rights, I can only Laugh, It is a joke , what I personally has withnessed myself.You don`t stand a chance when you complain. Only being intimidated.Somebody wrote a letter to a person of African descent saying to her daughter that the children are "nigger and the father, the `ve got no chance in Deustchland .I just summerized it a bit.This is a person of almost 80yrs old now.He is also a retired medical Doctor.Think of this !!!
Paloma y Lucy
posted by Deleted user in Germany forum
Yo tampoco entro en esta pagina para discutir con nadie :-).
Solo entro por que cuando llegue a Alemania me hubiera gustado encontrar una pagina como esta donde la gente se ayuda, supongo que así hubiera tenido las cosas un poco mas fáciles. En estos años he aprendido algunas cosas de este país, en el cual por cierto vivo muy bien , y me gusta compartir lo poquito que he aprendido con otras personas que precisan información y a ser posible en español (todo lo que he aprendido esta en la red pero muchas veces solo esta en aleman).Sobre el tema de de este hilo, bueno Lucy, miedo lo que se dice miedo, no has de tener. Claro que tienes que tener una serie de normas de seguridad, pero son mas o menos las mismas que tendrías en tu país (o yo en el mio). No te van a pegar, no es normal que peguen a mujeres extranjeras. Es un país muy seguro. Y el racismo es mas sutil que darte de leches. Asi que miedo no, precaución en ciertas zonas a ciertas horas, si, a veces.
hmmm
posted by Lucy T. in Germany forum
yo siento que en ciudades cosmopolitas no te miran raro porque hay tantas nacionalidades hay rusos,alemanes,latinos,ingles,españoles,japoneses,americanos
,turcos, hindúes,africanos,etc,y la lista suma sigue,entonces es bien difícil ser racista cuando convives con tantas personas distintas,ademas de que hay gente extranjera que le hace bien al país no todo es negativo como dicen por ahi,varios hindúes por ej, son muy preparados y estudiosos de las tecnologías computacionales,IT, ingenierías en computación, programación,etc. Vas a un kiosko o restaurante y es todo turco,hasta parece que la comida típica alemana no fuera salchicha fuera la comida turca xD los japoneses aportan mucho conocimiento sobre la tecnología y los negocios,he conocido algunos científicos nigerianos,africanos,etc que aportan con sus estudios de energías renovables al venir de países donde mayormente el agua,luz y gas de cocina no pueden ser obtenidos artificialmente por $$$$$ ayudan con excelentes ideas de producir estas fuentes de forma natural y beneficiosa para el medio ambiente desde sus estudios y vivencias.no todo es malo,hay que mirar los buenos aportes que hacen los inmigrantes también.y se ve en que hoy en día los alemanes están prefiriendo CALIDAD de la inmigración antes de cantidad.Pero en pueblos pequeños si uno ve mas racismo por el hecho de que no están acostumbrados a ver personas físicamente distintas a ellos...son muy cerrados y celosos con sus costumbres,raza,etc. no se si son agresivos pero si te hacen sentir bastante bicho raro entre ellos,igual siempre cuando vas a lugares muy autóctonos de los países no te miran bien,en mi propio pais he ido a lugares del sur donde viven los chilenos mas típicos y también donde viven comunidades mapuches y siempre te miran como que no eres parte de ellos,siempre seras un invasor,para que hablar si vas a isla de pascua y eso que se supone somos compatriotas :S
volviendo a lo de Alemania,a esas partes mas de pueblo,en especial al sur,ni voy por seguridad,soy de piel trigueña,ojos castaños y pelo negro,mis rasgos son finos,pero igual me da miedo,es obvio que no soy 100% europea,mi marido me dice que estoy exagerando pero mas vale prevenir que curar.
saludos.
Que es un latino?
posted by Paloma Quiñones in Germany forum
Estoy de acuerdo con tú explicacion del termino "latino" solo quiere mencionar que simplemente no es (gran) costumbre hablar de latinos cuando se refiere a un frances, portugues o español. Primeramente se asocina que un latino viene de Latinoamerica....
Pero aquí no quiero discutir con nadie. Esa question siempre era la razón para muchas discusiones ;-))
Ray
posted by Deleted user in Germany forum
De acuerdo con tu comentario,idiotas racistas hay en todos los países.
Pero solo una puntualizacion, la palabra latino, viene del latin Latinus, y se denomina así a todos los pueblos que hablaron latín y aplicaron el derecho romano .Según el diccionario de la real academia de la lengua española esta es la acepción exacta:
latinoamericano, na.
1. adj. Se dice del conjunto de los países de América colonizados por naciones latinas, es decir, España, Portugal o Francia.Te pongo el enlace para que lo puedas ver directamente en la pagina oficial.
http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA
=latinoAsí pues España es un país latino, y dado las connotaciones poco positivas de "colonización" que tiene la palabra latinoamericano, lo correcto seria usar Norte,Centro o Sur americano, por que cuando dices que eres "latinoamericano" lo que estas diciendo es que vienes de un pueblo colonizado (o invadido o subyugado, usa el termino que mas te guste). Y al menos a mis amigas de Sudamérica, les molesta bastante que las llamen así.
Los Racistas son unos ignorantes
posted by Deleted user in Germany forum
Es cierto eso de que en alemania aun hay mucho racismo, soy mitad aleman y mitad latino y a pesar de ser mi piel blanca y mis ojos claros , he podido experimentar en parte lo que acabo de leer en tu comentario paloma. pero que podemos hacer, Los ignorantes nunca se extinguiran.
En cuanto al comentario de arriba, esa chica debe informarse mejor, porque la Europa y Latinoamerica no tiene nada que ver, España es un pais hispanohablante pero no latino como se Expresa. el continente americano, no tiene nada que ver con el europeo.
Yo vivi unos años en españa y me atrevo a decir que entre los españoles y los alemanes el racismo es igual a exepcion que españa actualmente aparecen grupos racistas que maltratan a los de piel mas oscuras, viviendo alli pude ver en las noticias casos de maltratos contra los negros por parte de algunos españoles.